Garrard AT6 - why two versions?

[suebutcher]

A question about the Garrard AT6 Mark 1. There were two versions of this turntable, one with the usual Autoslim spring mounts, and the other with springs that required a through-hole on the baseboard like the RC210. The latter version had visible screw heads on the top of the motor board holding the springs. Was this so the AT6 could be retrofitted to grams designed for the earlier Garrard turntables? I haven't seen any other Autoslim models with through-hole springs like this.

[peter_sol]

It was a progression period between the two.
The through hole type being the older.

[Edward Huggins]

I have one of these very early ones with the coloured deck plate. I think the very first AT6 came out in very late 1959.

[GP49000]

Has anyone ever seen an AT6 badged with its original advertised name, "Autoslim DeLuxe?"

There are also illustrations in the first USA advertising for the AT6 that show the plastic headshell without the moulded-in finger lift; instead, they show a clip-on metal finger lift that looks like that on the early Autoslims, before the Autoslim tonearm diecasting was changed to add a cast-in finger lift.

Also there was another late AT6 variant, the AT6 Mk II sold in Australia. It had the antiskating introduced elsewhere on the AT60.

[suebutcher]

Here's the odd bit; the "Autoslim Deluxe" is supposed to predate the AT6, but here's an ad showing the Autoslim Deluxe without the through-hole spring mount screw heads. Which is why I thought the two mounting systems were concurrent.

[Techman]

I came across this on even earlier Garrard decks.

See posts 91 & 92 in the currently running thread linked to below. If I'm honest, I'd never seen the type shown in post 92 on a deck as early as that, as this method was generally used much later on, and all the RC70 type decks I'd ever seen had the mounts shown in post 91.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...=119481&page=5

[Edward Huggins]

The leaflets on the Autoslim in Post #5 are most revealing. In all my years of studying and collecting Garrard literature, I never did know of the "Autosim de Luxe" designation. Even the Service Manuals from very early 1960s did not use this title.

[unitaudio]

No, I'd never heard of that. Live and learn!

Regards,
Paul

[Edward Huggins]

I can remember when we saw the first "Autoslim" from the Garrard Rep, it did look a bit flimsy when compared the earlier 209 that were built like Battleships. Of course, this was the first sign of Plessey value engineering, but what a super generation of decks this spawned. Even so, it did seem really small and the Pye "Compact" portable record player was especially designed around this in 1960.

[G4XWDJim]

I bought this deck from a car boot sale many years ago and always assumed it was an AT6 with the little circular label missing. Looking at the two pictures in post 5 it looks like a combination of the two. Any ideas folks and if anyone has a spare label I'd like to hear from you.

Jim

[lazythread]

Jim, I'm pretty sure it's an AT5.

Regards

[Edward Huggins]

Yes, it is an AT5. It didn't have the tubular, counterbalanced tone arm. This came out about 3 years after the first AT6.

[Audio1950]

Originally Posted by lazythread

Jim, I'm pretty sure it's an AT5.

So am I. Completely different arm to the AT6.

Barry

[G4XWDJim]

Thanks chaps. I somehow expected an AT5 would be earlier because of the lower number, not later. I suppose if I search I'll be able to find a picture of one complete with its label so that I can make a copy of it or generate something similar on the computer.

I've had this some 20 years so I haven't exactly been in a rush to find one but this AT6 thread stirred my imagination and my deck does work well after servicing all those years ago. Alternatively if anyone could find me a scan of the proper label I'd be very grateful.

Jim

[GP49000]

There was also an AT5 variant with the low mass tubular arm that was on the very popular Model 3000. The AT5, whether standard or AT5LM didn't have the low-friction Delrin® insert in which the auto trip slider moved, thus requiring greasing, as did the Autoslim and AT6 (and what happened when the grease dried out wasn't pretty!).

The AT5LM used the AT6 spindles (which auto spindle differed from the Autoslim's). The 3000 had the Delrin® auto trip insert and the larger-diameter bore in the center platter shaft, along with its newer spindle and platter retaining clip.

[suebutcher]

GP, any thoughts on the two alternate spring mounting systems for the AT6 Mk1?

[GP49000]

Only a guess at this far-removed date, is that the newer version was less expensive to build, and was the same as that in the less-expensive Autoslim, so no additional tooling was required. In the AT6 and the Type A, balanced tonearms made critical leveling less important for good performance than had the arms been unbalanced (the Autoslim with its unbalanced arm was for less costly and less-exacting applications where leveling was not considered).

[suebutcher]

I've had a look at my spare 60 Mk2 (aka AT60 Mk2) and I was surprised to find it had the same unshielded two-pole motor as the cheapo Garrard 1000, rather than the four-pole that was normal on the AT6/AT60 series. It was salvaged from an Australian Kreisler radiogram, so I suppose Kreisler must have asked for a posh-looking fully-featured changer without the more expensive motor, which wasn't needed with a ceramic cartridge. The point is, some of these odd variations with Garrard turntables could have been custom production for record player manufacturers.

BTW, is there any meaning in the three-digit codes stamped under the Garrard motor boards? Two examples: 812 under the 60 Mk2, and 51.1 under my 1000.

[julie_m]

Originally Posted by suebutcher

The point is, some of these odd variations with Garrard turntables could have been custom production for record player manufacturers.

This is true. Motors especially are subject to almost endless variation: the same changer might be fitted with a shaded-pole motor, a split-phase motor, a synchronous motor (any of which could be for 50 or 60 Hz. cycles mains) or a battery motor; and the shaded pole motor could additionally have an autoitransformer tapping at 90 V (on a 200 - 250 V motor, to supply a UY85 and UL84 or UCL82 / 83 / 86) or 25 V (on a 100 - 125 V motor, to supply a 25L6GT), or a separate secondary winding to supply a solid-state amplifier. There were also special motors designed to be connected directly in series with a pair of 100 mA valve heaters. I make that 25 different motor options! (19 if we assume nobody is using the odd combination of 220 - 230 V at 60 Hz.)

[Edward Huggins]

No, I think you will find that by the time production had reached the stage of the AT60 Mark 2, Plessey's value engineering (aka cost reduction) was really kicking in. For example, IMHO, I find the earlier SP25 Mark 2 better than the later versions. I mean they even made an SP20 - cost reduced even further!