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Old 1st Feb 2017, 9:12 am   #21
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

There is a relay of BBC Radio 4 at Wrekenton,k 2kW.
http://www.mediumwaveradio.com/uk.php select the frequency.
 
Old 1st Feb 2017, 10:02 am   #22
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

There's MW Radio 4 from Crystal Palace too: if fact here's a list of the lot.
Aberdeen (Redmoss) - 1449 KHz
Belfast - 720 KHz
Carlisle - 1485 KHz
Cornwall - 756 KHz
Enniskillen - 774 KHz
London (Crystal Palace) - 720 KHz
Londonderry - 720 KHz
Newcastle - 603 KHz
Plymouth - 774 KHz

Last edited by Nicklyons2; 1st Feb 2017 at 10:04 am. Reason: adding units
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 11:08 am   #23
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

It is sad, But the way I see it is as the medium wave is abandoned by commercially licensed entities, it does open the door for enthusiasts to effectively take back the air waves and operate small community (albeit not strictly legal) stations.

Not that I'm condoning it at this point in time, but many of us with SSTRAN units COULD build the based loaded antenna and do just that. I think the USA's FCC have made a good call on allowing that very practice over in the states.

If the frequency is unused and the rig is good I see no harm in the context of a medium wave that appears to be left to "wither on the vine". So long as there are enthusiasts around I don't think it will ever die off.
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 11:53 am   #24
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

I'm sure there's less stations now but not dead here yet, a quick scan on my Bush and I'm picking up, BBC Newcastle, Absolute, Metro, Talk Sport, Five Live and Radio 4.
Plenty modern tech hear but no interference issues (I'm using a long wire in the loft).
And if I don't like the content I use my little Spitfire, I'll probably invest in a SSTRAN one day.

Commercial radio stations need listeners to attract advertisers, if people aren't using MW to listen to their stations you can't expect them keep going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
... After a quick search I found that R4 is apparently one of several MW stations radiated at comparatively low power from Wrekenton, Gateshead. I hadn't realised this before.
I have to admit that confused me too, I thought I had a very odd fault when trying to align a radio, then I released it was supposed to be there

John
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 12:02 pm   #25
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

Time's nearly up for MW and AM generally.

This is a shame as AM still has its uses, penetrating areas of difficult terrain that for FM and DAB requires many relays, and covering large areas with relative ease.

MW also allows a voice to be projected across borders, particularly useful in times of conflict, however, I think the magic of foreign stations coming in at night that so many of us fondly remember would have no appeal to the internet/youtube/MP3 generation.

There are so many things against MW. In the average urban location, and the average house, there is so much noise pollution that, today, listening to all but the strongest stations is a problem. Many car radios still have AM capability but IME with the ones of more recent years it's a token arrangement and they are often deaf with poor sound quality - which only adds to the myth that AM delivers poor sound. Those of us of a certain age know that when transmitters and receivers are properly set up AM quality is very good.

Commercial radio has seen its once large slice of the advertising cake gobbled up by hundreds of TV channels and the internet and is engaged in a race to the bottom. Local commercial stations that once had a distinctive voice and provided a variety of programming across AM and FM have been merged and absorbed into bland syndicated operations in a relentless quest to amalgamate audiences and reduce operating costs. As such operations are pared down AM is inevitably abandoned for FM.

I find the current terrestrial radio landscape depressing. Beyond Radio 4 and Radio 3 it's pretty much inane chat or pop 'n' prattle - though with some commercial stations abandoning the DJ at off peak times content is down to pop and ads.

Thus AM is no longer a viable proposition for local commercial broadcasters and the BBC has, for some years, been quietly turning off local AM transmitters. Those BBC locals that do retain AM outlets rarely advertise the fact. Some AM outlets have been saved by local cricket commentaries - BBC Derby and BBC Hereford & Worcester to name two. If you are a cricket fan you will find a position for your portable away from the mains wiring to get a suitable signal. For the big nationals, maintaining high power transmitters will increasingly become the issue as DAB take-up increases and listeners abandon AM.
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 1:07 pm   #26
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

Here in Chard, Somerset, I have a friend who runs a traditional Antiques and Collectables shop. Amongst the many varied, interesting and fascinating things therein, there are a couple of radios: one is an Ekco transistor job; the other is a Philips Bakelite valve type. Both claim to be fully functional, with a six-month guarantee and to me, both seem attractively priced. However, they've been on display for a couple of years: very little interest shown, apparently. Most of the above posts explain why: MW broadcasting has no future. In a few years time, I expect that the MW b/cast band will probably become an RF graveyard: it gives me no pleasure to believe that. My one hope is that since 'Nature abhors a vacuum', something worthwhile will occupy that space.

Al.
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 1:25 pm   #27
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

I think Al's closing assessment is bang on.

We've already seen the demise of Western government-funded HF broadcasting such as BBC External Services, VoA etc. which have all " ... flown up the curtain [array] and joined the choir invisibule" - to misquote a famous Monty Python line.

The writing's on the wall for any traditional 'real watts into the ether' public-sector broadcasting.

Guy
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 2:24 pm   #28
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

Here in my neck of Cumbria the 756kHz MW transmission is the only reliable means of receiving BBC radio Cumbria and I think thats the main reason fot it's survival. Theres a lot of difficult geography (topography?) in the county and the VHF signal often is blocked by hills etc even though as in my case I am only about 10 miles as the crow flies from the caldbeck mast. Theres no DAB broadcast of BBC Cumbria. this is one case where the MW coverage is essential, nay vital especially when the community station comes into it's own such as the Floods of last year. And now we have the "Lamb bank" starting up. again a really useful service for the farmers of the Area and a good example of how a community station can work for people. there is an internet feed and a DTV feed too but if you can't get VHF quite often you cant get DTV. And the more remote areas still won't have a fast enough internet to use for internet Radio. So I hope MW can survive in these important Niche areas?
Andy.
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 2:28 pm   #29
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

Not too bad here - I Still have Smooth radio, Absolute radio, Gold, BBC Essex to listen to (interference permitting !)
I hope they keep going on AM for a while, it would not seem the same at all using a pantry transmitter to me personally. The sets need to be used as they were originally designed for me to have the same interest. Better than nothing though of course!
Steve.
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 4:07 pm   #30
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

Radio as a genre is fighting a losing battle on the global media battlefield. Think of life 30 years back or more to see the difference to the world now. Back then there was TV and Radio, that was it for media and entertainment. People would listen to the radio at work if it was provided and acceptable, then TV in the evening. So lot's of material was available on the air.
Now, people are inseparable from their portable media devices, such as phones and tablets, even laptops and PC's are diminishing in popularity. On those portable devices the whole world is available, in any format. Music, video, the written word, etc, etc.
Young people know nothing but the internet and portable devices, ask them what MW or FM radio is and they probably won't know what you mean.
The spanning generation, as I think of it, is aware of what came before digital world, so we have a connection the young generation doesn't. Our generation is not the significant one though, we have an established way of life and generally are less willing, even able, to adopt the latest innovations.
The young drive the world forward, we are now passengers.
I never considered myself a Luddite but unfortunately I've realised I am! Internet radio, movies, social media etc, hold no appeal for me. I like to listen to R4 on LW, and Absolute Radio on MW, despite realising that it is not the highest quality.
And of course I like tinkering with 'vintage' electronics.
The end of radio is approaching though, just like analogue TV came to an end. It is unfortunately inevitable. We represent the Industrial stone-age!
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 5:00 pm   #31
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

The medium waveband is very little used by the general public. The younger do not even realize it is on their car radios. I collect vehicles of all kinds including heavy lorries. It is interesting to note that none of the vehicle radios, for years now have been tuned up on the AM bands. Most are tuned to stations on FM I have never heard of!

As far as MW is concerned I think it is dead and buried by the general public other than the vintage enthusiasts of course. John
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 5:44 pm   #32
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

R5 still has a significant MW audience, though this is likely to be because it isn't available on FM of course.
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 5:48 pm   #33
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

As a member of the ‘younger generation’, I admit having to familiarise myself with the analogue wavebands after getting my first vintage sets . I knew the theory of AM and FM broadcasting but had barely ever listened to the radio except at odd times or in the car.

Mostly it was just the lack of anything appealing to me and the constant adverts, which are much more annoying on radio than TV I find (at least you can mute the TV). Now that I’ve started listening to get some use out of my sets I find it’s mainly sport and just a couple of music stations I listen to, with maybe an occasional search of the shortwave bands. I also like to play back old radio dramas through the gram sockets whcih sounds very authentic. One positive thing about the internet is that it makes things like this readily available, which they would not have been a few years ago.

It would be nice if more modern radio programmes deviated from the meaningless talk-show format, but it must be cheap to produce, much like reality TV. The TV also hardly ever gets used nowadays except for streamed content, simply because there is so little worth watching. I still remember analogue TV in the 90s and there seemed to be more documentaries and factual programmes then, some of which I still have on tape. Even decent modern shows incorporate a lot more padding, especially around the ad breaks. If you cut out the repetition from a lot of hour long programmes they would probably last less than 15 minutes!
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 6:10 pm   #34
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

I still listen to Medium Wave on a home made valve superhet whenever I am in the workshop. Metro Two and Absolute are very good signals here and thankfully there isn't enough interference to blot them out. I don't really care about audio quality, as long as it is there in the background and I can identify (and remember) the "records" playing. Now when I am at work I always listen to Radio 2 on FM. I think this is down to daytime/evening program content as I suppose I am normally in the workshop during the evening and I just assume there isn't much to interest me on Radio 2 at that time of day. I may be wrong. Force of habit really. I think I would miss Medium Wave if it stopped broadcasting.
Alan.
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 6:40 pm   #35
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

Hi,

I suppose the situation isn’t helped because the reception of the Long and Medium wave bands is affected by the high levels of RFI radiated by digital devices used in the home.

I feel EMC compliance with respect to radiated emissions rather ignores the lower end of the RF spectrum, as from memory radiated emission tests for some standards start at 30MHz, but saying that conducted emissions start at 150KHz, but I feel radiated emissions cause the most problems for AM radio.

Terry
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 6:49 pm   #36
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

Many of the rental cars I have hired over the last 3 years haven't had MW or LW on the radios, just FM and DAB. Many also didn't have CD players, and instead had USB, 3.5mm line in and bluetooth. These were just regular hatchback cars - Vauxhall Corsa and Ford Fiesta etc.

With the amount of electronics in modern cars it would probably be difficult adequately suppressing interference on the AM bands, which may also influence the decision.
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 7:00 pm   #37
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

Hi,
Just having a scan of medium wave in the car (04 Avensis). There is a station on every nine kHz increment. Lots of continental stations. Listening to an Italian station on 900kHz, very strong signal.

Medium wave maybe be dying in the U.K. and Ireland, but it must be still popular on the continent.

Cheers,
John Joe.
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 7:23 pm   #38
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Box Nick View Post
I find the current terrestrial radio landscape depressing. Beyond Radio 4 and Radio 3 it's pretty much inane chat or pop 'n' prattle - though with some commercial stations abandoning the DJ at off peak times content is down to pop and ads.
It's an interesting thing to ponder forward: MW/LW is being abandoned in part because of the horrible narrow-band audio-quality/SMPS-interference, and - wot? No Stereo?? No RDS-enabled travel-announcements?? [they won't push me onto accepting 64Kbit/sec mono DAB!] and the fact that there's perhaps only a couple of stations still on MW that appeal to anyone under-50.

FM continues, but it's utterly ridiculous the way the "BBC Local" stations occupy about 8MHz simulcasting the same content for much of the day. There are a few worthwhile commercial stations still on FM ["SAM FM" being my current background-noise listening].

I really doubt that any new generation of free-radio stations will emerge on MW/LW - there's no listenership there: thankfully there are still plenty of these available to listen to on FM in pretty much any urban area, and any proposed "FM shutdown" of the big networks will release more space for them.

Perhaps there will be a 2020s-equivalent of the 1960s Ronan Rahilly, who'll fly a big drone or a high-altitude 'blimp' over the UK with a beefy FM transmitter on it to give nationwide coverage? The modern version of the pirate ships. If so I'd suggest calling it "Radio Stratosphere".


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Old 1st Feb 2017, 7:38 pm   #39
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

MW may have had it's day,but you still see plenty of listeners to the band in cars,i travel by bus and when looking over into cars,i look at the radio display and have observed around 70% tuned to MW, 693/1053/990 showing on displays.
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 10:59 pm   #40
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

I must admit when listening to AM I am usually more listening to a particular radio rather than the station itself because of the limited choice. Our BBC local (Suffolk) has no AM frequency and where I live it's all above 100MHz so I have never really listened to it. I can still sometimes get Radio Norfolk on AM and even FM on a very good receiver (had it playing on an Orion AR612 the other week. Other than that on AM it is a choice of either Smooth, Talksport or 5 Live. I have never lived in a house which has had an acceptable interference free signal for Radio 4 on LW. As I have no interest in sport it ends up being Smooth. Their music is not exactly my thing but for having on in the background to keep my smoothers in good shape it does the job. The majority of my listening is FM and my radio collection is now beginning to reflect that, a lot of my AM only sets I have sold on in favour of sets with FM. That might also be because late 50s/early 60s sets are my favourite era for styling...!
I wish I could get a good signal for Absolute Radio as that is the station music wise I tend to favour but it constantly fades in and out here and I highly doubt they'll be upping their power anytime soon.

At work it is worse, with no FM signals at all possible in our office, and AM signals swamped by all the SMPS. I think the reason for lack of FM is because it is a largely Tudor courtyard manor house and the office is on the courtyard side. Even in the car outside in the courtyard it is difficult to get a signal. As soon as I step out into a corridor or one of the show rooms I get a great signal! Rather annoying as I just bought a tatty Roberts R900 to live on my desk. DAB signal in the office is fine so I will have to go down that route.
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