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Old 31st Jan 2017, 7:15 pm   #1
GeoffK
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Default Medium wave dying?

For a long time I have been trying to get the local BBC Essex radio to fix a fault with its 765kHz transmitter. It suffers drop outs and blips and skips in its transmission, due it would seem because the medium wave gets its program via satellite, this causes a delay compared to the same program going out on both 729kHz and 1530kHz that do not have any faults.

This is one response I had from the station engineer;

We require independent control of 765MW which is why it is sent a different way (from 729kHz and 1530kHz). MW is a dying transmission method which is why it is less advertised than the others. (Such as DAB Internet FM).

This is from Chelmsford that boasts it is the 'Birthplace of Radio', because of the Marconi factory that was once there. Now the inevitable housing estate where once I roamed the corridors of the New Street works.

Is medium wave being slowly run down by the broadcasters?

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Old 31st Jan 2017, 7:25 pm   #2
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Default Re: medium wave dying

My own view is that MW is already dead, and has been for quite some time.

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Old 31st Jan 2017, 7:29 pm   #3
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Default Re: medium wave dying

In all honesty, I think it has had it. As a teenager, I used to go round with a small MW radio tuned to radio 1 during the day and tuned to radio Luxembourg in the evening- as did most of my friends.

Aside from the fact you can't get radio 1 on medium wave now, most of that demographic now get their "music" (and I use the term advisedly) via MP3's or streaming.

The choice, and sound quality, on MW is poor when compared to other sources. We used to put up with fade and interference listening to radio Luxembourg after dark becuase it was about the only way we could listen to pop music.

Times and technology move on.
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Old 31st Jan 2017, 7:36 pm   #4
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Default Re: medium wave dying

There's not much on MW/LW these days to interest me. Same goes for shortwave, where the only remaining stations are either religious or political-propaganda, both of which should maybe re-categorised as "comedy" ??

Truth is, mainstream "broadcast radio" is a dying medium. Same goes for 'live' TV. FM and free-to-air TV may linger on for another decade or so. ...

Things come, things go. So be it.
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Old 31st Jan 2017, 7:37 pm   #5
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Default Re: medium wave dying

MW is, and always has been, a very low priority for BBC local radio. These stations originally launched on VHF only and gained MW transmitters because the Heath government was introducing commercial local radio in the 70s and those stations insisted on being given MW transmitters, so the BBC got them too. By the 1990s over half were FM only again (that's when BBC Radio Oxford lost MW).

Both budgets and engineering resources are very tight in BBC local radio now (stations don't have dedicated engineers - in the 70s they typically had 2 each). Given these pressures it is understandable that the MW output is at the back of the queue.
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Old 31st Jan 2017, 7:42 pm   #6
GeoffK
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Default Re: medium wave dying

There is still Smooth and Absolute on MW. It was originally the BBC that did little to provide entertainment for the young, just an hour of 'Pick of the Pops' on a Sunday afternoon, even that peppered with classical music jingles. The offshore ships gave some hope that MW would have more choice until the Labour government and Tony Benn put an end to it to keep their left wing mouthpiece the BBC the only one to listen to. Medium wave is poor quality compared with other media, but new radios still have a MW band.
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Old 31st Jan 2017, 7:44 pm   #7
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Default Re: medium wave dying

No political discussions here please.
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Old 31st Jan 2017, 7:48 pm   #8
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Default Re: medium wave dying

When I am out walking I find MW (Radio 5) and LW (Radio 4) easily the most reliable signals. If the 'authorities' could just let independents use their toys i.e. the unused MW allocations (which they say are not being re-allocated), we may have something left, it may be good. Perhaps insisting on formats that would be interesting rather than your average 'smooth radio' etc..

Even a 10kHz bandwidth (20kHz channels) would be possible.

Last edited by Guest; 31st Jan 2017 at 7:50 pm. Reason: Added a bit
 
Old 31st Jan 2017, 8:14 pm   #9
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

Mediumwave quality was in my opinion superior to FM I still say a nicely processed AM transmission sounds warm and comforting I always thought FM sounded cold although now I must admit heart on FM does have a nice sound. If you listen to old recordings of radio 1 radio Luxembourg and Atlantic 252 the sound is really good apart from the odd crackle!
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Old 31st Jan 2017, 9:00 pm   #10
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Default Re: medium wave dying

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinmaxwell View Post
If the 'authorities' could just let independents use their toys i.e. the unused MW allocations (which they say are not being re-allocated), we may have something left, it may be good. Perhaps insisting on formats that would be interesting rather than your average 'smooth radio' etc..
Given the likely listenership and its demographic I honestly doubt you'd have any sane commercial operators wanting to *pay* anything for a licence to use these legacy MW/LW band-segments.

Perhaps give "RSL-style" licences free to anyone (community groups?) who want them? But even if the licence itself was free no doubt OFCOM would require expensive certification of the transmitter-gear, and TBH would it be profitable for an operator who would get at most a few hundred elderly and low-spending-power listeners to "Upper Fox's Bottom Radio"?
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Old 31st Jan 2017, 9:30 pm   #11
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

If the demand was there, someone would fill it somehow, but it just isn't unfortunately. All the more room for our low power micro-transmitters!
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Old 31st Jan 2017, 9:43 pm   #12
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

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Originally Posted by AC/HL View Post
If the demand was there, someone would fill it somehow, but it just isn't unfortunately. All the more room for our low power micro-transmitters!
If MW broadcasts continue to decline, as seems likely, is there a risk that "pantry transmitters" and other very low power transmissions might become more conspicuous and perhaps attract unwanted attention ?

It is fairly well understood that micro power transmissions without any license or permit, are acceptable if not noticeable outside ones own property.

Is there a risk that a micro-power transmission that bothered no one in 2017 might become objectionable in say 2019 if large transmitters are shut down.
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Old 31st Jan 2017, 9:54 pm   #13
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

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Originally Posted by broadgage View Post
Is there a risk that a micro-power transmission that bothered no one in 2017 might become objectionable in say 2019 if large transmitters are shut down.
If nobody-else is listening on the bands or complaining about significant interference to the content they're paying for a channel to deliver I really doubt it.

The existing MW broadcasters have, let's face it, over the last couple of decades had to tolerate a raising of the noise-floor across the band by 10 or 15dB from SMPS/inverter/wireless-LAN noise and they've not done anything ...
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Old 31st Jan 2017, 10:22 pm   #14
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

If the signal can't be heard outside your propery, nobody will know about it. Even if it can, if it doesn't cause a nuisance for anybody within the limited transmission area then there's no reason for anybody to complain about it.

Ofcom have a limited enforcement budget, and I can't see them wasting resources investigating a victimless crime. They only chase the big London FM pirates because they cause interference and are associated with other criminality.
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Old 31st Jan 2017, 11:31 pm   #15
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

Radio Devon on 801kHz comes over well, FM output doesn't reach Lynton but MW does!
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Old 31st Jan 2017, 11:52 pm   #16
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

I guess that Brookmans Park 909kHz Radio 5 Live will survive for longer than most because it sustains a majority of London's taxi drivers!

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Old 1st Feb 2017, 12:22 am   #17
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

I hate to say, I haven't really listened to anything on MW LW or even FM for probably more than 10 years! Mostly because the BBC stations don't cater for my tastes at all, and the commercial radio stations with their constant repetitive irritating adverts make me switch off normally after 1 song... Collecting and restoring old radio's does seem a little pointless now! I have over 100 of them, and never really let them play Must get round to building one of those pantry transmitters!

Back in the mid 90's I did used to listen to Classic Gold, on 1359, and quite enjoyed it, in fact I'll say I loved it... It's probably why I started collecting radio's in the first place. There always seemed to be plenty of variety back then, If I didn't like what they were playing I'd retune to Virgin radio, as it was, or any of the other fading distant stations. I very rarely used FM. Back then there wasn't any SMPS noise, well, until my Dad got a computer, which would drown out everything when he switched it on! These days it's constant, no matter when you switch on, buzzing and screeching across the whole band. And then I can only get about 3 stations over the noise.

Regards,
Lloyd.
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 12:53 am   #18
GeoffK
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

For Essex I can only hope Radio Caroline gets a medium wave licence to start broadcasting from the MV Ross Revenge, currently undergoing restoration.
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 1:28 am   #19
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Default Re: Medium wave dying?

I turned my Lowe HF-150 on earlier this evening and, finding little action on the amateur bands, spun down to medium wave to have a listen there. I found '5' as expected plus local radios Newcastle and Metro on long established 'historic' frequencies, but was then very surprised to find what sounded like BBC Radio 4 ('The Life Scientific', with Jim Al-Khalili) on 603. I had thought that R4 was only available on AM on 198 long wave.

After a quick search I found that R4 is apparently one of several MW stations radiated at comparatively low power from Wrekenton, Gateshead. I hadn't realised this before.
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Old 1st Feb 2017, 1:54 am   #20
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Default Re: medium wave dying

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
(stations don't have dedicated engineers - in the 70s they typically had 2 each)
Perhaps surprisingly, virtually all local radio stations still have engineers (Northampton is the only exception that I can think of off the top of my head at this time of the night). I know many of them well.

But only 1, and sometimes only part-time.

As late as the early '90s there were typically 2 engineers, an EIC (Engineer In Charge), and often an additional technician. That all changed in the mid-'90s.

Today, many local radio systems such as Radioman are supported centrally from Birmingham - that's been the case for 15+ years. More centralisation of the technicalities is currently happening (Google "ViLoR" for details), but despite that a local engineer will remain on station.

What many don't realise is that the LR engineer does a lot of operational work these days. They often spend a lot more time out on the road than in their workshops. Even if all the "traditional" engineering aspects of their jobs were removed, they'd still be pretty busy. That's just a reflection of technological change - no 1/4" tape machines to line up any more

The distribution of audio to many and varied transmitter sites is complex (technically and contractually), so I can't go into details here. Suffice to say, another project is rolling on at the moment which is changing a lot of things.
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