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Old 13th Jan 2017, 4:03 pm   #1
stuart_morgan_64
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Default Garrard Idler Solution

I find BSR idlers normally ok, but Garrard hard, split ect.

I have now tried this twice, and works well. Grinding down the surface a little, glue a belt to the outer surface. When it struggles a cycle at 45, now does a cycle on 16 with no sign of slowing.

My main problem is making a mess with the glue. Has anyone else tried this, maybe some sort of fine glue dispense.
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 5:48 pm   #2
sp10mk11
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

I used to have a model train that had rubber driving wheels, they went rock hard so I super glued a flat rubber belt to them, this worked perfectly for that but an idler wheel could be more tricky because of the join, unless you can find a flat belt that is small enough
Best of luck
Gary
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 6:12 pm   #3
Edward Huggins
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

None of this makes for an elegent solution.
You must get it skimmed, a reduced diameter will not make any difference to the speed accuracy. Edward
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Old 14th Jan 2017, 3:53 am   #4
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

Traction is not the only criterion. The surface must be smooth and without irregularities or the reconstructed wheel will create rumble. Enough irregularity (such as if the thickness of the rubber belt varies due to not being evenly stretched around the circumference) will also cause wow.

There are vendors who vulcanize new rubber onto your old idler wheel cores and grind the drive surface to smoothness and concentricity.
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Old 14th Jan 2017, 8:13 am   #5
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

Precision rubber "o" ring glued on works for me, no join.
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Old 14th Jan 2017, 8:51 am   #6
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

0 Rings
Yes that's a good idea
Gary
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Old 14th Jan 2017, 1:34 pm   #7
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

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Originally Posted by GP49000 View Post
Traction is not the only criterion. The surface must be smooth and without irregularities or the reconstructed wheel will create rumble. Enough irregularity (such as if the thickness of the rubber belt varies due to not being evenly stretched around the circumference) will also cause wow.

There are vendors who vulcanize new rubber onto your old idler wheel cores and grind the drive surface to smoothness and concentricity.
That really is the only way to get them working perfectly.
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Old 19th Jan 2017, 11:16 am   #8
stuart_morgan_64
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

The belts I buy don't have joins in them. I used a flat belt. I am using the idea on record players, not hi fi decks.
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 5:49 pm   #9
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

I have been wondering if SUGRU might work as a new layer of rubber on edge of the wheel? It sort of works like plastlina, but sets to a type of rubber. I have no idea if it the grip will be good enough, but touching the stuff it feels like it might.
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 7:19 pm   #10
Edward Huggins
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

All of this is fudging the issue. Just get that idler skimmed a few microns on a Lathe and your problems are over!
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 8:06 pm   #11
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

Hi Silver Ghost, An Idea I thought of was self amalgamating tape as used by aerial riggers, they refer to it as 'malgy tape' . Screwfix sell it for about £4. it sets to a very rubber like surface but not very smooth and it can take a long time to cure. It would probably need final finishing with abrasive of some sort. Easy for me on a Myford but probably do able in a drill.

Regards, Peter
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Old 24th Jan 2017, 10:12 am   #12
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

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Originally Posted by Edward Huggins View Post
All of this is fudging the issue. Just get that idler skimmed a few microns on a Lathe and your problems are over!
Even this does not provide a lasting cure. Get the wheel rebuilt.
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Old 24th Jan 2017, 12:01 pm   #13
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

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Even this does not provide a lasting cure. Get the wheel rebuilt.
I had one skimmed on a lathe about a year ago. It worked well for about 3 months, but then started slipping again. I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but I resorted to the "O" ring trick, which has worked beautifully.
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Old 24th Jan 2017, 2:22 pm   #14
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

Depends on the Garrard deck. For the 301/401 you can buy re-manufactured idlers if you have deep pockets https://www.perfectsound.co.uk/store...r-wheel-detail

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Old 24th Jan 2017, 4:58 pm   #15
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

The only way to do this properly is to get the Idler wheel re-rubbered, grinding etc works to a point but if you intend keeping the deck I would just get wheel done, there are a few people who can do this sort of work.
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Old 24th Jan 2017, 6:55 pm   #16
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

On most old idlers the rubber deteriorates throughout. Grinding may expose a fresh surface, but it's not fresh rubber, and even if it works for a while it can soon start slipping again, whether by rapid evaporation of a chemical constituent ("drying out") or by rapid oxidation of the surface, newly exposed.

It can work on some and costs nothing to try, but on most it doesn't last. I would never do it on a job for which I were being paid. Also, some autochanger mechanisms have particularly high torque requirements at points in their cycle which require particularly high traction, so you might get away with grinding an idler on Brand X but not Brand Y, or on different models within one brand.

Last edited by GP49000; 24th Jan 2017 at 7:01 pm.
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Old 27th Jan 2017, 5:03 pm   #17
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

I have tried grinding but very short lived. My subject was re cheap record players, not hi-fi. I have O rings, never tried. I do find that the motor drops due to rubbers going thin and the idler not making full contact. I have found grommits to fit. Would a O riing give enough surface contact.

Having a idler rebuilt for a Fidelity record player, along with a new cartridge isn't cost effective for some.
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Old 27th Jan 2017, 5:42 pm   #18
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

Rubber motor mounts that perish and drop out of alignment is a very common problem, especially on the BSR UA8 autochanger.
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Old 28th Jan 2017, 7:06 pm   #19
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

I made a new one still going strong
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Old 28th Jan 2017, 7:13 pm   #20
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Default Re: Garrard Idler Solution

Going Strong
Well done I have never used an "0" seal for a turntable idler, tape decks etc yes. That looks very good.
The only possible problem in the future might be wear on the mounting hole, I suppose it will depend on how much load it is under, non the less an excellent job
Gary
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