|
Where To Get Sets and Parts For discussions about swapmeets, rallies, NVCF and BVWS, car boot sales, antique and charity shops, dealers, newspaper adverts, the local tip and just about any other source of equipment (other than eBay). |
|
Thread Tools |
20th Jan 2017, 3:02 am | #1 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 4,924
|
Dalo Pens
Does anyone know of a source of Dalo pcb pens? I'm down to my last one , which came from Cricklewood a couple of years ago, but they have no more. I've checked all the suppliers referred to in the last thread that came up on this subject, but it could be the end of the road.
The Dalo name now seems to be connected to other types of pen, and various people are selling etch-resistance pens, but I am wary of non-Dalo substitutes. B
__________________
Saturn V had 6 million pounds of fuel. It would take thirty thousand strong men to lift it an inch. |
20th Jan 2017, 8:39 am | #2 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Rustington, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 381
|
Re: Dalo Pens
Mega electronics make a etch resist pen, RS part number 363-6551. Not as good as the Dalo pen, no spare nib in the rear end.
__________________
Bob, BVWS member |
20th Jan 2017, 8:44 am | #3 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cottingham, East Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 5,737
|
Re: Dalo Pens
You'll get the equivalent 'SENO' brand, along with PCB rub-down transfers, and other PCB equipment from ESR Electronics, here:
https://www.esr.co.uk/electronics/pcb-transfers.htm I can't comment on the SENO pens - never had any success with Dalo pens, but SENO rub-down transfers from ESR are excellent and their service is first class. Well worth browsing their on-line catalogue too. (EG, thet stock the full range of Velleman kits at keen prices). Hope that helps.
__________________
David. BVWS Member. G-QRP Club member 1339. |
20th Jan 2017, 6:58 pm | #4 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 4,924
|
Re: Dalo Pens
Thanks for those suggestions. I like the Dalo for doing small, quick boards; I wish I'd stashed a few more away. However, Plan B is that I identified a particular ink some time ago, which is fast drying, water resistant, but easily removable with common solvents, so I'll look at re-filling an old Dalo, or using a Dalo as a 'fountain pen' and maybe try a small brush.
B
__________________
Saturn V had 6 million pounds of fuel. It would take thirty thousand strong men to lift it an inch. |
20th Jan 2017, 7:25 pm | #5 |
Octode
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 1,349
|
Re: Dalo Pens
I've found the Staedtler Lumocolour pens to be very good as long as the copper is clean. Totally different feel to the heavy 'ink' of the Dalo pens. The Lumocolurs were a joy to use.
Just a disclaimer that its many years since I bought any as I tend to use UV methods now but assuming they are the same then worth a try. This may not work: http://cpc.farnell.com/webapp/wcs/st...&storeId=10180 this should for the medium: http://cpc.farnell.com/staedtler/317...allet/dp/OE317 |
20th Jan 2017, 9:25 pm | #6 |
Nonode
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 2,181
|
Re: Dalo Pens
Years ago I found that normal permanent markers worked well. I've mentioned it on other occasions, but last time I had to make something like a keyboard ,i drew the outline via carbon paper on to the copper, used a cheap bottle of nail polish and removed the small bits I didn't want. Also, years ago, ladies nail folks made a nail polish pen ( similar to a permanant marker ,possibly smaller), but although mrs OC looked for one, we never found it.
I've always found nail polish far superior for large areas than transfers /pen when using Ferric . Sharpie also make a small permanent marker. |
20th Jan 2017, 10:15 pm | #7 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 4,924
|
Re: Dalo Pens
Yes, the Staedtler Lumocolour pens seem to be the usual offerings now; I've never used them but guess I should give them a try. I know the Dalo pens were not universally popular but I thought they were really good; the dried ink resisting the etchant even when it was fairly warm.
I think I should start up a new business making (i) substitute Dalo pens and (ii) inexpensive sheet aluminium mini-boxes, both of which seem to have become unobtanium.
__________________
Saturn V had 6 million pounds of fuel. It would take thirty thousand strong men to lift it an inch. |
20th Jan 2017, 11:53 pm | #8 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 3,687
|
Re: Dalo Pens
Another vote for Staedtler Lumocolor here.
I'd buy aluminium mini boxes! I've resorted to making my own crude ones with sheet aluminium, aviation shears and a vice. |
21st Jan 2017, 12:08 am | #9 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 4,942
|
Re: Dalo Pens
|
21st Jan 2017, 1:31 am | #10 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 4,924
|
Re: Dalo Pens
That Dykem Dalo looks like it has a broad tip, but ...the Dura-Ink 15 pen at the side of the page looks oddly appealing... and very inexpensive.
__________________
Saturn V had 6 million pounds of fuel. It would take thirty thousand strong men to lift it an inch. |
21st Jan 2017, 8:35 am | #11 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 4,942
|
Re: Dalo Pens
I had not realised I'd provided a link to such a useful supplier of interesting stuff!
There is also http://www.waltersandwalters.co.uk/i...nt-pen-markers which has an 0.8mm line width. I've ordered a few in different colours. |
21st Jan 2017, 11:40 am | #12 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 3,687
|
Re: Dalo Pens
Just remembered I used my mother's nail varnish initially. That worked better than the markers but was hard to control.
|
21st Jan 2017, 11:49 am | #13 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 4,942
|
Re: Dalo Pens
Wow - that brought back a memory. Yes - my first attempts at circuit boards was using nail varnish.
That was after I used pieces of formica with holes drilled for component leads, then hard wired underneath. And because I couldn't find a small enough drill, I snapped the end of a sewing needle and used that. Try doing that with a ball grid array chip.... Craig |
21st Jan 2017, 1:13 pm | #14 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cottingham, East Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 5,737
|
Re: Dalo Pens
I've never actually seen any examples of PCBs produced by using Dalo pens or similar, other than my own dismal efforts maybe forty odd years ago, which went straight in the bin as the tracks were threadbare in places. Trying to go over the tracks more than once was hopeless, as it simply dissolved the ink already on the board. Yes, the tracks had continuity and would have worked, as electrons are unfussy about how they get from A to B so long as they do. Conversely, I'm very fussy about what I make and unless it can come as close to a professional PCB as it's possible for an amateur to achieve, for me, it's a non-runner, so I found the results obtained by Dalo pens to be offensive to the eye.
Apart from that, even though most projects that I make are fairly simple, I can't see how a Dalo pen would be the least bit suitable. I've attached a few pics of some of the boards I've made over the last couple of years as examples of small projects I've built using PCBs produced by UV techniques. A Dalo pen? I don't think so, except perhaps for the first example below. Prior to using UV I used rub-down transfers by Alfac, Seno and the like, with great success, albeit very time consuming. Furthermore, once a mask has been made, UV has the merit of making another board if need be. Incidentally, the stage has been reached at which - even in terms of materials alone - some will say that it makes little economic sense to make your own PCBs when you can get them professionally made at less cost, quite apart from the considerable time that it takes to expose, develop, etch, drill and tin the boards. But that completely misses the point that hobbies are about the enjoyable use of scarce leisure time, and if we enjoy making printed circuit boards as hobbyists, why on earth would we want to get them made commercially, unless they were say complex double sided or multi-layer boards with plated through holes and screen printed, and a batch was needed? I don't make PCBs to save money - I do it because it's part of my hobby, but I think that goes whoosh over the heads of some. In the same vein, it makes no economic sense to spend all morning in a fruitless attempt to repair an electric toaster which I could replace for not much more than a tenner, nor is it a sensible use of my time, but it doesn't stop me doing it! Hopefully, that outlook will strike a chord with a few others? So, to get back on track, if anyone is achieving excellent results with Dalo or similar pens, I for one would be interested in seeing some examples of PCBs produced by that method.
__________________
David. BVWS Member. G-QRP Club member 1339. |
21st Jan 2017, 1:44 pm | #15 |
Octode
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 1,349
|
Re: Dalo Pens
These were all done with Lumocolour pens and IC pad transfers although these days I use UV. The results from that can be spectacular for a diy board but as mentioned...... its so cheap and easy to get boards professionally made these days.
|
21st Jan 2017, 4:59 pm | #16 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cottingham, East Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 5,737
|
Re: Dalo Pens
They look excellent, I must say. I'd have no problem with that sort of result.
I notice that the write-up on the lumocolour pens does state: 'It is also etch resistant and therefore extremely useful in marking PCBs prior to etching'.
__________________
David. BVWS Member. G-QRP Club member 1339. |
21st Jan 2017, 5:26 pm | #17 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 4,924
|
Re: Dalo Pens
Nice work
__________________
Saturn V had 6 million pounds of fuel. It would take thirty thousand strong men to lift it an inch. |
21st Jan 2017, 6:59 pm | #18 |
Octode
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 1,349
|
Re: Dalo Pens
Thanks Lol, looking back and I must have been keen back then......
|