Fridge/freezer dead? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

yesnaby · 14th Jan 2017, 4:38 pm

Came home after 2 weeks away to find Hotpoint fridge/freezer not working. It seems to have tripped a circuit breaker when I was away, but it doesn't do it now. Interior light not working, checked input cable, fuse and plug/socket, still dead. What gives?

Michael

electronwilly · 14th Jan 2017, 4:58 pm

Hi Michael there is usually a reset switch at the bottom back usually in a white plastic box where the electronics are contained. Cheers Billy. Hope your model is the the same.

Kala_12 · 14th Jan 2017, 5:31 pm

Hi Michael,
I have had the circuit breaker in the Consumer Unit knocked out by a light bulb blowing at least three times over the last year or so. I understand it's something to do with there being an arc as the filament breaks. Others may be able to confirm this.
Stuart.

paulsherwin · 14th Jan 2017, 5:34 pm

Is the compressor running?

G6Tanuki · 14th Jan 2017, 5:51 pm

Stick a meter on the supply and see if it's drawing any current. A small current drain is to be expected even if the thing is totally deceased, due to the suppressor capacitors across the mains input.

yesnaby · 14th Jan 2017, 6:18 pm

Compressor not running and no cooling taking place. Will get meter out!

Goldie99 · 14th Jan 2017, 6:57 pm

Don't forget to check the thermostat.... I managed to (unknowingly) break the thin metal thermostat tube in a freezer last year, just by closing a drawer somewhat too enthusiastically.... with the obvious consequences.

Philips210 · 14th Jan 2017, 9:37 pm

Hi.

I'm not sure but on some fridge/freezers the bulb wiring is associated with the thermostat so this might explain why the lamp is also not working. It should be possible to bypass the thermostat to see if the compressor is going to start. I have in the past had a problem with the start relay which plugs into the compressor. I'd first check the thermostat though.

Symon.

Brian R Pateman · 14th Jan 2017, 10:27 pm

You don't say where the appliance is located, but a few years ago we had our fridge/freezer in the garage, attached to the house but unheated. It packed up after a long period of cold weather and of course I did all the usual things and all appeared to be in order.

Indeed, it was working, but it was so cold that it entered the de-frost cycle and the thermostat was evidently fooled into thinking that the fridge was cold enough and therefore it didn't need to drop the temperature any further.

We moved it to the utility room which is much warmer and it has been running perfectly ever since.

This is a drawback of basic fridge/freezers with one compressor and a temperature control which is primarily for the fridge.

yesnaby · 14th Jan 2017, 11:09 pm

It's in the utility room which I imagine got pretty cold over the last two weeks. Not sure why it tripped the circuit breaker though. The AC current drawn is 20.5 milliamps and the DC resistance across the mains lead is 15 k ohms.

Refugee · 14th Jan 2017, 11:15 pm

You can buy a special twin motor fridge/freezer for use in out buildings.
It may end up being cheaper to buy separate appliances for the two functions.

Herald1360 · 14th Jan 2017, 11:34 pm

Basic combined fridge freezers rely on the room temperature being high enough for the fridge thermostat to cut in the compressor for long enough that the freezer temperature is maintained somewhere below the highest safe temperature. The overall balance of fridge cooling vs freezer cooling only works properly if the room temperature is within spec limits.

If room temperature drops below normal fridge temp of about 5 degrees, the fridge is cold enough that the thermostat never operates and the freezer warms up. It's cheap'n'cheerful but it (mostly) works fine indoors.

A dual compressor / dual thermostat unit doesn't suffer from this problem, though if it's really cold, the contents of the fridge could freeze!

Refugee · 14th Jan 2017, 11:42 pm

Surely if it got that cold the contents of all fridge compartments would freeze solid?

trsomian · 14th Jan 2017, 11:49 pm

We have a single compressor fridge freezer in an unheated room, with the problem described here, so I built a controller, that if it detects that the compressor hasn't run for several hours it puts a small heater on in the fridge until it does run. Works a treat

Herald1360 · 14th Jan 2017, 11:56 pm

Sounds like a pragmatic workround there. Not brilliant for the overall efficiency of the system, but likely a lot cheaper than a custom unit!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refugee

Surely if it got that cold the contents of all fridge compartments would freeze solid?

Yes, they would. Of course if a freezer itself was somewhere colder than about -25 or so, the contents would be colder than normal too, though that wouldn't be a particular problem!

When my old fridge freezer developed a fault that caused the compressor to run continuously, things in the fridge froze and the freezer got down to about -40.

The Philpott · 15th Jan 2017, 12:59 am

I am not a fan of fridge freezers with a shared compressor; one section generally appears to be either too hot or too cold, especially as the system gets older. Fridges with wee little ice compartments don't seem to be as prone to this; mine has manual flaps to allow more cold air to drop into the fridge bit as required- simplest systems being the most effective of course.

There is a 2 letter code which indicates the ambient temp. operating range of the refrigerant, (mine is SN i think) but broadly speaking below 9C or over 38C you can be in difficulties.

yesnaby · 15th Jan 2017, 7:36 am

Yes a twin compressor one would be nice but I don't think I can justify the cost. Also, a lot of fridge freezers are too high for me, 180 cm is just too much!

Boater Sam · 15th Jan 2017, 8:22 am

Problems arose when they took out the fluoro-carbons. Still seems odd to me that we now have a highly inflammable gas in an electrical appliance.

yesnaby · 15th Jan 2017, 10:03 am

I've done some dismantling. The light bulb is intact. There is no reset switch anywhere. The thermostat is not an electrical type, it is mechanical. A bulb connects via a short capillary tube to an actuator, which moves a blanking plate towards and away from an aperture in the back wall of the fridge compartment. So there is no way of (electrically) bridging it. Fiddling about with the position of the blanking plate has no effect, the compressor does not start. Time to be scrapped I think.

dseymo1 · 15th Jan 2017, 10:24 am

There must surely be a an electrical thermostat of some sort in addition to the mechanical arrangement.
Have you tried powering the compressor directly - L & N to the 'run' terminals, and a brief L connection to the start terminal to get it going? If it then runs, work backwards to the start relay (they quite commonly fail) and its feed.

14th Jan 2017, 4:38 pm	#1
yesnaby Octode Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Newport, Gwent, UK. Posts: 1,623	Fridge/freezer dead? Came home after 2 weeks away to find Hotpoint fridge/freezer not working. It seems to have tripped a circuit breaker when I was away, but it doesn't do it now. Interior light not working, checked input cable, fuse and plug/socket, still dead. What gives? Michael

14th Jan 2017, 4:58 pm	#2
electronwilly Hexode Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Westerhope, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 408	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? Hi Michael there is usually a reset switch at the bottom back usually in a white plastic box where the electronics are contained. Cheers Billy. Hope your model is the the same.

14th Jan 2017, 5:31 pm	#3
Kala_12 Hexode Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Carmarthen, Carmarthenshire, UK. Posts: 268	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? Hi Michael, I have had the circuit breaker in the Consumer Unit knocked out by a light bulb blowing at least three times over the last year or so. I understand it's something to do with there being an arc as the filament breaks. Others may be able to confirm this. Stuart. __________________ Half my stuff is junk - luckily, my wife doesn't know which half!

14th Jan 2017, 5:34 pm	#4
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,943	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? Is the compressor running?

14th Jan 2017, 5:51 pm	#5
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 13,998	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? Stick a meter on the supply and see if it's drawing any current. A small current drain is to be expected even if the thing is totally deceased, due to the suppressor capacitors across the mains input.

14th Jan 2017, 6:18 pm	#6
yesnaby Octode Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Newport, Gwent, UK. Posts: 1,623	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? Compressor not running and no cooling taking place. Will get meter out!

14th Jan 2017, 6:57 pm	#7
Goldie99 Heptode Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Boston, Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 995	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? Don't forget to check the thermostat.... I managed to (unknowingly) break the thin metal thermostat tube in a freezer last year, just by closing a drawer somewhat too enthusiastically.... with the obvious consequences.

14th Jan 2017, 9:37 pm	#8
Philips210 Nonode Join Date: May 2007 Location: Redruth, Cornwall, UK. Posts: 2,573	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? Hi. I'm not sure but on some fridge/freezers the bulb wiring is associated with the thermostat so this might explain why the lamp is also not working. It should be possible to bypass the thermostat to see if the compressor is going to start. I have in the past had a problem with the start relay which plugs into the compressor. I'd first check the thermostat though. Symon.

14th Jan 2017, 10:27 pm	#9
Brian R Pateman Nonode Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Lake District, Cumbria (CA20) - UK Posts: 2,136	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? You don't say where the appliance is located, but a few years ago we had our fridge/freezer in the garage, attached to the house but unheated. It packed up after a long period of cold weather and of course I did all the usual things and all appeared to be in order. Indeed, it was working, but it was so cold that it entered the de-frost cycle and the thermostat was evidently fooled into thinking that the fridge was cold enough and therefore it didn't need to drop the temperature any further. We moved it to the utility room which is much warmer and it has been running perfectly ever since. This is a drawback of basic fridge/freezers with one compressor and a temperature control which is primarily for the fridge. __________________ Brian

14th Jan 2017, 11:09 pm	#10
yesnaby Octode Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Newport, Gwent, UK. Posts: 1,623	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? It's in the utility room which I imagine got pretty cold over the last two weeks. Not sure why it tripped the circuit breaker though. The AC current drawn is 20.5 milliamps and the DC resistance across the mains lead is 15 k ohms.

14th Jan 2017, 11:15 pm	#11
Refugee Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK. Posts: 5,553	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? You can buy a special twin motor fridge/freezer for use in out buildings. It may end up being cheaper to buy separate appliances for the two functions.

14th Jan 2017, 11:34 pm	#12
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? Basic combined fridge freezers rely on the room temperature being high enough for the fridge thermostat to cut in the compressor for long enough that the freezer temperature is maintained somewhere below the highest safe temperature. The overall balance of fridge cooling vs freezer cooling only works properly if the room temperature is within spec limits. If room temperature drops below normal fridge temp of about 5 degrees, the fridge is cold enough that the thermostat never operates and the freezer warms up. It's cheap'n'cheerful but it (mostly) works fine indoors. A dual compressor / dual thermostat unit doesn't suffer from this problem, though if it's really cold, the contents of the fridge could freeze! __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

14th Jan 2017, 11:42 pm	#13
Refugee Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK. Posts: 5,553	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? Surely if it got that cold the contents of all fridge compartments would freeze solid?

14th Jan 2017, 11:49 pm	#14
trsomian Hexode Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Box End, Beds. UK. Posts: 271	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? We have a single compressor fridge freezer in an unheated room, with the problem described here, so I built a controller, that if it detects that the compressor hasn't run for several hours it puts a small heater on in the fridge until it does run. Works a treat

15th Jan 2017, 12:59 am	#16
The Philpott Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Colchester, Essex, UK. Posts: 4,106	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? I am not a fan of fridge freezers with a shared compressor; one section generally appears to be either too hot or too cold, especially as the system gets older. Fridges with wee little ice compartments don't seem to be as prone to this; mine has manual flaps to allow more cold air to drop into the fridge bit as required- simplest systems being the most effective of course. There is a 2 letter code which indicates the ambient temp. operating range of the refrigerant, (mine is SN i think) but broadly speaking below 9C or over 38C you can be in difficulties.

15th Jan 2017, 7:36 am	#17
yesnaby Octode Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Newport, Gwent, UK. Posts: 1,623	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? Yes a twin compressor one would be nice but I don't think I can justify the cost. Also, a lot of fridge freezers are too high for me, 180 cm is just too much!

15th Jan 2017, 8:22 am	#18
Boater Sam Banned Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Middlewich, Cheshire, UK. & Winter in the Philippines. Posts: 3,897	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? Problems arose when they took out the fluoro-carbons. Still seems odd to me that we now have a highly inflammable gas in an electrical appliance.

15th Jan 2017, 10:03 am	#19
yesnaby Octode Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Newport, Gwent, UK. Posts: 1,623	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? I've done some dismantling. The light bulb is intact. There is no reset switch anywhere. The thermostat is not an electrical type, it is mechanical. A bulb connects via a short capillary tube to an actuator, which moves a blanking plate towards and away from an aperture in the back wall of the fridge compartment. So there is no way of (electrically) bridging it. Fiddling about with the position of the blanking plate has no effect, the compressor does not start. Time to be scrapped I think.

15th Jan 2017, 10:24 am	#20
dseymo1 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Shropshire, UK. Posts: 3,051	Re: Fridge/freezer dead? There must surely be a an electrical thermostat of some sort in addition to the mechanical arrangement. Have you tried powering the compressor directly - L & N to the 'run' terminals, and a brief L connection to the start terminal to get it going? If it then runs, work backwards to the start relay (they quite commonly fail) and its feed.