FM closing?

[paperboy]

I wonder if the decision by Norway to close all its FM stations by the end of the year, with Denmark considering the same move, does that hasten the end of FM here?

[SteveCG]

I hope not. If concerned, then I suggest writing to your MP.

[ms660]

If/when the vast majority of the UK is on super fast broadband and mobile coverage then I reckon it'll all get the chop.

Lawrence.

[whyperion]

I think it would come down to money.
If the FM spectrum can be sold for alternative uses by the Govt then there is an incentive so to do. But if local FM stations will still buy airspace, then it stays !

[G6Tanuki]

Given the extent to which the old VHF Band I/III and low/high-band VHF/UHF private-mobile-radio allocations have emptied over the last decade and are now pretty much desolate wastelands I really doubt there's much commercial sell-on value in Band II.

I can remember when back in the 1980s it was all-but impossible to get an 'exclusive' nationwide frequency (or frequency-pair) allocated in the 66-88 or 148-174MHz PMR bands. Now they're there for the asking. VHF is not attractive for modern short-distance high-bandwidth digital comms.

[G8HQP Dave]

FM is free to use, as are other forms of broadcast radio. Internet-based comms is not, and not all people have internet at home or when out and about. Band 2 is about the right frequency for what it is currently used for: sound broadcasting; Band 1 needs bigger antennas while Band 3 has poorer building penetration and so shorter range.

[AC/HL]

Norway's decision won't have any impact on us. However, the reasoning behind their decision presumably applies worldwide. There's no reason to believe that we're any different.

[Radio Wrangler]

Norwegian geography must also be taken into account their (award winning) fjord coastline and habitation pattern makes it difficult to get anything like the coverage which has been achieved by main UK sites.

David

[David G4EBT]

Given that many stations are commercially funded, and given that a high proportion of radio listening is in cars on the move, the demise of FM will only come about when a majority of cars had DAB radio and that's not going to be any time soon. Commercial radio survives on advertising revenue so the stations and the advertisers will 'follow the money'. When a high proportion of cars have DAB, the commercial stations will pull the plug on FM, and so of course will public broadcasting. (Similar situation to the switch from analogue to digital TV when the 'tipping point' was reached).

I doubt that more than 10% of cars have DAB radio at present. My car is 3 months old and doesn't have DAB, which won't leave a gap in my life.

As to selling off vacated slices of the FM spectrum, I can't think who'd want it. The money is in the GHz bands for mobile phones, not 88 - 108 MHz.

[whyperion]

I'm tempted to say that as in the same way there has been an increase in 'retro' vinyl enthusiasts, that FM/VHF broadcasting might too become a niche - backed up with Internet radio and some DAB if they can afford it - its not only having a car equipped with DAB - the wifes work car is - but recieving it - hills, dales and basement carparks dont get it , yet, for local specialist areas, maybe for ethnic groups in some areas. And the top end of VHF did get used by ITV for 405 broadcasting so maybe a bit of that on a local scale. Would stil need regulation and compliance for content and interference so not cheap

[kellys_eye]

You're probably more likely to receive full internet coverage (3G/4G etc) before you get similar DAB coverage so why anyone would purchase a DAB receiver in place of an internet-connected one (offering many more facilities than DAB can) is a curiosity to me.

Similarly cars are, I believe, being internet-enabled too so again, why DAB?

I think the technology has run its course, missed the boat so to speak, such that alternative technology has supplanted it before manufacturers have had a chance to milk the DAB market.

[turretslug]

The base FM infrastructure must be ageing, and at that difficult point where the scrap it, patch it, or spend a lot on replacement quandary arises. Compared to digital transmission techniques, the meter ends up spinning a lot quicker, too....

I, too, can't help thinking that DAB has been eclipsed but for more far-reaching reasons- in our data collation-fixated world, every service is expected to reward the investor effort by providing instant, precise logging of usage back to the providers for dissemination so that the algorithms can get to work on the personal profiling- smart pricing, credit ratings, spam focussing etc. etc. Like it or loathe it, that's our world. Broadcasting doesn't provide that by nature, the internet does. I don't expect any form of RF spectrum broadcasting to be with us for very much longer, if they can get away with it- it won't have the 21st century business case.

[MrBungle]

I'd imagine this would be used as a cost cutting measure if anything. Sort of "Look Denmark saved X million Krone; we can save X million pounds".

I don't want DAB. I don't want any IP based services.

I'd actually back pirate FM services if they produced any content that wasn't crappy garage music if they pulled normal FM broadcast.

[Nuvistor]

Originally Posted by kellys_eye

You're probably more likely to receive full internet coverage (3G/4G etc) before you get similar DAB coverage so why anyone would purchase a DAB receiver in place of an internet-connected one (offering many more facilities than DAB can) is a curiosity to me.

They will need to sort out Multicast streams out instead of Unicast before the internet will be viable for as many listeners that radio broadcast signals support, Digital or Analogue radio. Thats if I understand the technology correctly.
There is also the problem of the end user paying for the transmission of the data with the internet.
I do use internet radio but mainly standard radio Digital or Analogue.
Frank

[MrBungle]

Multicast was a bit of a dead end. It's not going to happen. Technology-wise it's not something that can universally penetrate all public networks reliably and it is prone to abuse. In the end, the cheapest, simplest option turned out to be edge caching (CDN) and proxy caching of streams which is what Google etc use for YouTube. This keeps the high traffic costs within the boundary of the ISP as the content provider or subcontracted CDN is close to the consumer. Where I live, most of my streaming traffic comes from a big DC at Heathrow as an example.

Incidentally, ignoring real geography which the Internet has no concept of, it's pretty much the equivalent of sticking a big FM transmitter wherever there is a large cluster of users and then uplinking the streams via microwave cross-country. But less interesting and less reliable.

Ugh anyway this is too close to the day job so I'm going to shut up now.

[stevehertz]

Originally Posted by paperboy

I wonder if the decision by Norway to close all its FM stations by the end of the year, with Denmark considering the same move, does that hasten the end of FM here?

Why do you think that those two countries FM closure decisions would impact on, or even influence us in the UK? I don't see any correlation myself.

[julie_m]

*gazes into crystal ball* I see pirate stations filling up the vacated FM band, turf wars between rival gangs running the pirate stations and a game of cat-and-mouse with The Authorities. I see a court having to make a landmark decision whether or not to allow independent broadcasters to use the obsolete frequencies, subject to certain regulations.

Then the pips go, and the crystal ball clouds over again .....

[Nuvistor]

Originally Posted by stevehertz

Why do you think that those two countries FM closure decisions would impact on, or even influence us in the UK? I don't see any correlation myself.

If it's a success it could be held as an example of saving money, free up frequencies, not sure what they would be used for though, and any thing else the government and broadcasters of other countries could put up as an argument for closing VHF FM.
DAB coverage has got better but still not enough in the UK, but there are places were DAB is better than FM. I can get DAB at my daughters house but FM is very poor.
Have to wait and see, not something I worry about but interesting to see if it's a success.
Frank

[emeritus]

Not only are we in a mobile phone dead spot at home (unless we go up into the loft), we only get burbling on portable DAB receivers at ground level. It seems daft to have to power up the TV to listen to the radio, but politicians make decisions on the basis of policy and saving money, rather than on what makes technical sense.

[Nuvistor]

Hi Mr Bungle,
Fair enough on Multicast, 10 years since I was in IT, appreciate a lot of traffic is CDN these day, we were just starting with it 10 years ago.
Frank