Columbia 100 gramophone motor

[EF80TVVALVE]

Hi all

I've recently picked up a columbia gramophone fitted with a columbia 100 motor. I have a question regarding winding, when I reach towards the end of winding the handle doesn't gain large resistance and come to a stop, instead it sounds almost rachet like and continues to turn.

My first thoughts go to a damaged spring that is slipping, but it will play over a 12" record with no problems which leads me to wonder if these motors have a rachet that allows the spring to reach full wind and let the handle to continue being turned.

If anyone has experience of this particular motor then I'd be interested to know if indeed it is at fault.

[Audio1950]

It sounds as though the spring is broken at the outer end, and is only slipping when the spring has reached maximum tension. No, there is no ratchet, when the spring is wound fully, the handle cannot be turned any further. If it is broken at the outer end, then it's a fairly simple job to cut the broken end off, and drill a new fixing hole.

Barry

[EF80TVVALVE]

Thanks Barry, wishful thinking I suppose! Sounds like an easy enough repair, if I have some free time at the weekend I'll strip it down as see what the spring looks like.

[Audio1950]

If you've never done this before, be very careful, those springs can leap out and cause you and the surroundings serious harm! Make sure before you take the motor apart that the spring is fully unwound. If, when you get the spring drum out, you can't face the job, I'll be happy to do it for you, no charge.

Barry

[EF80TVVALVE]

I'll be sure to unwind the spring before dismantling, maybe I'll do a bit of reading beforehand and see how comfortable I feel doing it! Thanks for the kind offer, if I chicken out then I'll take you upon that, I'll update the thread either way.

Cheers
Bren

[Simondm]

Whilst on the subject, gentlemen, what's the preferred lubricant for the spring?

I have an HMV to take on picnics (no horn, but I do have the necessary yellow duster), and it beginst to slow up a lot sooner than I would expect. I'm pretty certain it's friction in the spring assembly, but I am very nervous of the spring cassette (is that the right term?).

TIA, Simon.

[Audio1950]

I've always used a general purpose grease from Halfords, no problems. Some people recommend adding graphite, but in my humble opinion it seems to make the grease go hard, and make the problem even worse. HMV used grease/graphite in their springs originally, with the result that now, we sometimes have to take a chisel to them to remove the cement-like mess. Garrard, on the other hand didn't use graphite, so now their springs remain in good clean condition, with no problems. By the way, the container the spring is in is called the drum, a cassette is a tape container.

Barry

[Simondm]

Thanks on both counts. Mine is HMV, so that might explain it. I have some decent general purpose grease (SKF) so I will carefully clean and regrease it without graphite!

Most grateful.

[EF80TVVALVE]

Hi all, it's been some time since I posted about the gramophone motor of my columbia machine. I've had a chance to look at the spring today, it's a double spring arrangement and I've attached some photos. The first spring looks fine but the second looks to be broken in three or four places. I'll pull this one out and see if it's serviceable, it may be that I need to find a replacement if there is too much damage. The first photo shows the good spring, the rest show the damaged one with broken sections.

[Techman]

It certainly does look a bit odd at the outer end.

That grease looks far too new to be original, so perhaps someone's had a go at it before.

When you re-make the ends of springs you have to remove the 'tempering' from the sprung steel otherwise you can't cut or drill it. You then have to put the 'tempering' back into the steel otherwise it won't last long - a lot of people don't do this.

It could be that someone didn't do the tempering bit properly and it's broken twice.

You should be able to shorten that spring and re-drill/re-make the outer end.

You can get away with not re-tempering the metal if you're careful with future winding. I've recently dug out an old mantle clock on which I re-made the middle of the spring years ago and I didn't re-temper the metal at that time, due to me being younger and less knowledgeable about such things back then. It's been working well, but I'm careful not to wind it to the stop - it's not broken yet and it may not get to that stage, as the loud 'tick' of this clock is starting to annoy me, so it may yet go back into storage!

[Audio1950]

Originally Posted by EF80TVVALVE

The first photo shows the good spring, the rest show the damaged one with broken sections.

That damaged spring looks as though the breaks are in the centre coils as well as the outer end. To take off some of the outer end and re-make the hole is an easy job, but removing more than an inch or so from the centre as well will result in a serious loss of power, apart from it being a very difficult job to lift the coils up, heat them and then re-shape the end. Much easier to get a new spring!

Barry

[joebog1]

Are springs like that still available ?.

Joe

[Audio1950]

Originally Posted by joebog1

Are springs like that still available ?.

Joe

Yes, widely available, but getting more and more expensive.

Barry

[EF80TVVALVE]

Hi all
Well after removing the spring the breaks were only the outer 7 inches or so of the spring. I re-made the hole and refitted but I think I need to have another go as its still not gripping, this is the first time I've done such repair but I think the end of the spring is too 'straight' and is slipping past the pin on the housing. I think a small curve needs to be added so that it catches properly and doesn't slip. I've attached a few photos. Unfortunately I don't have anything to hand in order to temper the steel so I'll just have to be careful with it in the future.

[Audio1950]

It does need to be bent to match the curve of the drum. You should be able to do this without further heating.

Barry